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Go Back   KOTR Forums > Climbing > Climbing Chat

KOTR is looking for a new owner. Are you a developer, a climber and have plans to stay in Korea for a while? If so, email me at [email protected]
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Unread 09-14-2010, 09:04 PM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,552
only up to 5.10. . . after that, I yield!
"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
Unread 09-14-2010, 09:06 PM
choss monkey's Avatar
choss monkey choss monkey is offline
send train
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
Posts: 330
Oh skinsk, I know you are among the most beloved KOTR members and your presence on this forum is a blessing. We appreciate all of your organizing efforts, you've done a great job in the past. I'm not trying to step on toes, so please don't take it that way.

However, I and many of whom I've spoken with just felt that it may be a good idea to have a little change. The convenience of doing this in the city should bring out more people that are new and feel lost in Korea, and will still give them the chance to meet and climb.

The idea of meeting people and climbing to my hearts content at the crag of my choice on Sat and Sunday seems more enticing than waiting in an endless line for my turn on the rope.

What it all comes down to though is what EVERYONE wants, not just you, and not just me. After all this is a democracy not a dictatorship. I'll post up a thread for a simple and to the point vote. We can run with it from there, and I look forward to whatever the good folks here decide.
Unread 09-14-2010, 09:35 PM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,552
hey. . .again, you (and anyone else) who doesn't want to meet and greet can easily NOT meet and greet!! it's that easy!! you can post plan trips for Seoul and/or wherever!

All I am saying, is that for those of us who want to follow tradition, hit one of Korea's 2 top sport crags. . . WE need to decide on a date to do so. NOW, any weekend people DON'T want to come out or do something, they don't have to. Every weekend I choose not to do many things. . . sometimes even things I do want to do!!

But THIS isn't even a democracy, it's a forum! Unlike FOX, we can actually have more than one opinion, and not everything is a debate!! Again, by all means, anyone who DOESN'T want to hit Kanhyeon this Autumn, no one will make you! You can drink in Seoul, climb in Seoul, hang out on a beach in Busan, paraglide in Iksan. . . whatever. Post your own thread and more paragliders might join you!

I certainly need no patronizing! Those who know me know I am dedicated to climbing and Korea, and trying to make one and all enjoyable for everyone. As someone who is capable of helping people (esp new people, because I have some vague resemblance of a memory left, even though my new-ness here predated the internet as we know it and digital cameras and my memory ain't all that much!!!) get together and get to places like Seonunsan and Kanhyeon, where I know they will meet cool folks, get inspired, etc. . ., I will do what I can (though negativity does sadden me TT . TT and I even tried to call you^^).

So, those who WANT a meet and greet-- my thread is for YOU! No "false choices" and we will not force anybody to come (thought we might ask you to tome it down if you're drunk and obnoxious. . . )!! As in the past, we'll try to organize and help with rides, food, etc. . . make sure everyone gets on some great climbs, learns a lot, etc! Again, those who have climbed with me know I stress fun and safety!

As my friends know, I'm a lover, not a fighter (a vegetarian whose vegetarian friends laugh at her for not killing mosquitos!. . . though we all have our moments. . .and I am not ever gonna claim on this forum to be perfect-- spent wayyyy too much time here and know wayyy to many people who have seen me at my not-best for that!!) and whatever you plan, I am not going to dis it or whatever!

Just saying, I am down for an Autumn climbing meet and greet of foreign climbers. I am flexible, so no need for dictating (though to be honest, there's no "Democracy" embedded in a forum, and fewer "trips" are more democratic than a M & G. . ) But it's NOT an all or nothing! Many people clearly want to meet this fall and climb and I started a thread for them/us. I didn't even vote in dates-- and if people wanted to hit Seonunsan, my home crag, again, I'd be there (Kanhyeon is a much bigger haul for me for sure!!) but I am flexible.

My sole purpose in starting a Meet and Greet thread was to bring together people who want to camp, climb, check out one of Korea's premier sport crags and have a great time!

"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
Unread 09-14-2010, 09:40 PM
TheresaM's Avatar
TheresaM TheresaM is offline
Jiri Jammer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: seoul
Posts: 50
"derailing" ?? hmm... I just thought I was picking one of the options given to me.... 'other' and explaining why.

My main concern leads back to the last M&G at Gahnyeon. I know for all of us there it won't soon be forgotten. I'm thinking about the safety issues that arise from having so many people at one crag. Not being able to hear your belayer is one of them. Accidents DO happen, gahnyeon is an already crowded crag adding on 40+ more climbers makes it unsafe without tons of organization/crowd control.

If the M&G is at gahnyeon please make sure everyone is being safe and responsible.

There are multiple reasons for myself wanting to change up the M&G. Maybe we'll just have to do both eventually!

Either way I can't wait to rope up with all you F***ers
I vote for choice 2 for now.
Unread 09-14-2010, 09:47 PM
Eric's Avatar
Eric Eric is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Owen Sound, Ontario
Posts: 681
I didn't see a link to the new poll in this thread so here it is:

Thanks for posting it, choss monkey.
Fall: To retreat in dynamic fashion from a climb.
Unread 09-14-2010, 10:07 PM
willpower willpower is offline
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sokcho
Posts: 121
I'm down for option two too. Not cause I like 'number twos' but 'cause I like preserving the benevolent rep' we so graciously receive weekend in and weekend out...


Unread 09-14-2010, 10:12 PM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,552
did something happen at the last Kanhyeon M & G that I wasn't aware of?!?!? (I wasn't here 2009)?

Now, accident's happen there and all over-- all of the foreigner accident's I know of (including a broken back at Kanhyeon) happened at non-M & G-- and again, because so many fewer people are watching, double checking etc! It's been my experience that M & G's have been safer (been to 7 of the 9 outdoors, all with no accidents or incendents) than other outings, where I have seen much worse behavior and many more accidents.

BUT a note to those who plan to come out to a Meet and Greet: one thing I love about KOTR is the fact that we do (more than anywhere else I have lived and climbed, and I've lived and climbed all over since 1985) double check each other and watch out for each other. I know I pissed quite a lot of folks off in Daegu because I objected to climbers trying to trespass and climb drunk on the Bull, reserved under KOTR as a club.

Climbing isn't 100% safe and maybe this website needs a warning. Possibly no one on this website has more experience with injury than I do, and I double err on the side of caution. I've lost friends to climbing, most recently Go Mi-young, Korea's finest with whom I shared much tent space and soju. Will that stop me from climbing? no. Climbing with Koreans? no. Being extra cautious? . . . even if it means not summitting or not being popular in honor of my friend, YES.

Enough people on this website can attest to that fact, and that I will defend the Koreans as our gracious hosts, to whom we owe a lot of respect and gratitude. . . even if it means changing our behavior! I went to sleep early with my i-pod so i could climb the next day at the last M & G, so I missed any incident. . . I did read and hear about it from many many many people (though I wouldn't classify any as "hate mail" it was "passionate" mail!!) Maybe just the folks I was with (I was safely at Mun bawi Sun with quite a small crew of mostly beginners) . . . but I met people that had a blast. . . from those who came with flu-like symptoms, to those who recently lost a toenail to climbing, to those who had been polish industrial climbers and who just wanted to photograph their flag from the top of a Korean climb!! to those who stayed late to clean (to whom I regrettable relinquished the leftover tequilla) despite having a long motor-cycle ride back in the rain!! I guess I was just psyched to be back "home" and to meet a new wave of amazing people!! not excluding my home-girl/boys!! Jeonju isn't such a lonely place anymore^^_ (if you notice I post far fewer trips^^).

So maybe I have my own selfish reasons-- to meet climbers from all over Korea whom I can inspire, help out (even though my Korean is not like Dee's or Jake's!!) etc. . . in honor of my Korean and foreign mentors and friends (many of whom, esp the Koreans! I spent many a crazy drunken night that many of us probably just conveniently forgot about ). . . some. . . far too many of whom are no longer with us. . . I do what I can! And I enjoy it!!! I was lucky back in the day to meet and learn from so many amazing (Korean and foreign) climbers-- and I need people to travel and climb with!! and I've met so many cool people. . . people who have been there for me and will be lifelong friends! It was done through climbing, and sometimes started at M & G's. Marriages (think Rick and Adrienne) were made at Meet and Greets. Some of you, I've had a hard time reaching lately and I wonder what happened that you feel as you do? All I get are the second hand rants on KOTR (which makes me so sad) from people I barely know, and haven't seen (at least much) at Meet and Greets?

Lots of good times, good friends and friggin awesome food! Doesn't take quantity of people, but quality. . . and that is here in Korea in abundance. That said, we will try to warn the Korean community, and yes, hoof it to the far campground^^ Personally, I would be psyched to see everyone there! Nothing that can't be solved over a safe, good Kanhyeon multi-pitch with a Margarita afterwards, (assuming no one is driving).

I guess one fact of being around so long (and coming back!!) is watching things change, and not always for the better. Maybe being in Korea so long has also taught me that there is value in tradition, even when bowing to a pigs head or group sharing equipment and training on the same routes day in and out seemed strange, at first. . . there is something to be said for tradition,

I've seen so much of this part of the world change-- travelled to Asia in '81-- and sometimes it's hard to let go of the memories and not want to go back, but KOTR is constantly getting new awesome amazing people, and retaining and bringing back the old!! Koreans are finding us, and most of us climb semi-regularly in the gym/wall with Koreans. And Korea has taught me, that esp when it comes to climbing and clubs: you go to these places with your club once a year and climb-it-up! You bring your guitars and drums and invite anyone within ear-shot to join and somehow balance that with respect (that you can appreciate if you've spent even one night in a Korean campground in August).

"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
Unread 09-15-2010, 03:18 AM
tivs's Avatar
tivs tivs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 서울 용산구 남영동
Posts: 33

"I like going to the park and watching the children run and jump around, because you see, they don't know I'm using blanks." - Emo Philips
Unread 09-15-2010, 11:10 AM
Helenk Helenk is offline
Jiri Jammer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seoul
Posts: 70
I love to get outdoors, camp, climb, have a great time singing and laughing around a bonfire with a guitar (or even ukelele) going, fire roaring, soju and makkoli being passed around and a general lively atmosphere. I had a great time at last years Meet and Greet at Ganhyeon too. A really good time. We were at the far campsite away from the main campsite there was a lot of fun to be had.

However, I now have my reasons for why I would not want to have it there again in such vast numbers. Firstly, along with the drunkenness and having a good time comes noise, empty bottles and other litter being strewn everywhere, into the river, on the beach. And what usually happens is that is left down to the 4 or 5 people who maybe didn't get so plastered, to go back the next morning and clean up after everyone else who is lying in bed still hungover, or those who just don't think about cleaning up after the night before. Of course the behaviour that comes with drinking is a huge negative point (not to the person drinking but often to onlookers), especially when it involves Koreans who are away on a quiet weekend and are disturbed by a bunch of drunken foreigners who are just having a good time. Last year you could still hear the singing and general noise from near the minbaks over the other side of the bridge.

Secondly, the safety issue. There are a lot of climbers at Ganhyeon and yes, communication can be a huge problem. People want to get to know each other, have a good chat, and when better to have a chat when you're belaying?! (!!!!!!) I think most people will vouch that yes, a lot of people at Ganhyeon get sucked into the chit chat at the bottom of the climb where everyone else is sitting around, making interesting conversation and waiting for the next climb. Concentration is taken off the job at hand - making sure the person at the top of the rope isn't going anywhere! - and yes, accidents do happen. Now, of course accidents happen when there are just one or two people there, but with huge numbers like we had last year at the crag, it is more relaxed, less safe and accidents more likely.

I enjoy climbing at Ganhyeon as I think it is a great place to climb, a great place to meet Koreans (climbers and their families), and it's just a nice get away for weekend in a beautiful setting. But I think it is a great place for smaller groups of people (it is busy enough already), not huge crowds all at one time.

On that note, I mentioned the other option having a chat over a meal with friends I met through KOTR the other night, and thought to see what other people's thoughts were. Climb during the day at one of the numerous local crags around Seoul/Daegu or other city, and then congregrate in one place in the evening after a full day of climbing in a spot where we can have a good time. Then if you're still up to it, climb on the Sunday too!

However, if the M & G is held at Ganhyeon (and yes, it will be fun), I urge someone to contact climbing gyms in Korea to let the Korean climbers know that there will be a large group of climbers descending on Ganhyeon so that if they feel they want to change their weekend plans and go somewhere quieter, then they can do so beforehand. And have fun, think about others not in the group, clean up, and climb safe.

That's all from me!

Oh and tivs
Unread 09-15-2010, 02:35 PM
mosahlah mosahlah is offline
Former Action Guy
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Yongsangu, Seoul
Posts: 41
Danielle has a great idea. Do both. Night in Seoul, followed by day in kanhyeon. Best of both worlds. I'm down for both.
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