Home

Navigation
Home
Climbing
Forums
Area Photos
Search
Search Climbs
Search Photos
Search Forums
Submissions
Add a Climb
Add an Area Photo
Add a Fun Photo
Quick Links
Rock Climbing Areas
Rock Climbing Photos
Ice Climbing Areas
Ice Climbing Photos
Gyms
Gym Photos
Bouldering Areas
Bouldering Photos
Artificial Walls
Artificial Wall Photos
User Links
Register
Today's Posts
Calendar
FAQ
Korea Links
Weather
Train Schedule
Korea Travel
Climbs by Province
Jeju-Do Jeollanam-Do Jeollabuk-Do Gyeongseongnam-Do Gyeongsangbuk-Do Chungcheongbuk-Do Chungcheongnam-Do Gyeonggi-Do Gangwon-Do Province
User Name Password
Calendar | Register | Lost Password?

Go Back   KOTR Forums > Climbing > Accidents & Injuries

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
shanja's Avatar
shanja shanja is offline
verticalcult
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Daejeon
Posts: 1,386
Leashless ice axes....the climbers ninja stars of death!

Let's begin with this image.
A cartwheeling 3lb (3/4 kilo) swastika of shapened steel racing along at 9.8m/s/s. Your body a soft pink lump of target clad in all the protection of down feathers and nylon.
Not a pretty combo, eh? But alas and unfortunately it's a reality. An ice axe is more than capable of puncturing your clothes, your flesh and even your helmet and skull.
Now, although I'm a fan of leashless ice-climbing myself, and thus maybe seen here as a slight hypocrite, I would like to bring fair warning to the dangers of this style. It's not for everyone, and not for everywhere.
Recentl;y at Yeong-dong ice park, an axe was dropped. It ricocheted off the wall, off the ground and like a steroid stuffed 'roo jumped up and out a good 12 feet smack into the face of an unlucky climber/ belayer. He was incredibly lucky to be able to walk away (to the ambulance) with just a huge ugly gash and lot's of spilt claret.
The same weekend, at anothet ice park, a KOTRer was similarly hit by a dropped axe, that by some miracle collided more with his legs and chest, and somewhow without the pick itself getting embedded in his body.
Though I find leashes a hassle, I will admit it's probably true that at a crowded crag/ ice-park or fall, that by not using SOME KIND OF TETHER, you are putting others in real danger. It may well be just a matter of time before someone is killed....though I hope it never happens.
How would you feel if the dropped axe was yours?
It's not always the climbers fault that an axe is dropped. Falling ice from above (happens a LOT!) can dislodge the axe from your hand or from a secure placement, as can a sudden broken pick, a collision with a rappelling/ lowering climber, a smashed knuckle when swinging etc
A less hassly option to leashes is to run 4mm accessory cord/ bungee cord from the axes spike end to your harness. You can still get hands free and swap tools, though the long tethers can snag and so on. Quick detachable leashes are also available for most tools, though again, shafts may need specialized retro-fits to take them.
I guess the thing is to look at where you are, and how many folk are about. If it's crowded, maybe you ought give in and leash/ tether up. Also the belayers in ice climbing generally tend to be further out from the wall, for comfort and safety from the continuous showering of small shards of falling ice etc, BUT this puts them in a more risky fall-line for heavy bouncing blocks and falling tools etc....and because of the oblique angle of belay (instead of being right in under the climber as in rock-climbing), falls can jerk a belayer right of their feet, especially when belaying on a slippery ice covered stance. So belayers should tie in right? Well...yes and no.
Being tied in means you won't lose control if you get jerked off your stance by a falling climber, but it makes you a sitting duck for falling stuff too. So what's the solution? I dunno. I think (seriously) cricketing leg pads would be good, or at least shin-guards, and always always belayers should have a helmet on and be watching the climber and wall carefully. Early warning of anything falling is also crucial. Yelling out in a panicked scream "NAK BING!!!! 낙빙!!!!!) ASAP is a sure way to get peoples attention and may give them time to dodge the missile. You're climbing in Korea, so learn that phrase IN KOREAN. It literally means falling ice, but will do for tools or other gear too. Rock climbers use "NAK SEOK!!!낙석!!!" for falling rock etc.
__________________
quem deus perdere vult, primus dementat
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 02-09-2010, 09:50 AM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,532
this is exactly what goes through my head when I am near leash-less climbers. thanks for saying it!
__________________
"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 02-18-2010, 04:11 PM
mil-mil's Avatar
mil-mil mil-mil is offline
tinker bell
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alabama, soon to be back in Korea
Posts: 322
I started using something they sell here in Japan that attaches via swivels to your harness and ice tools. very nice and no need to worry about droping your tool on multi pitch routes. I actually find myself prefering this over straight up leashless. i mean really when you are 200 meters off the deck on some scary thin **** do you want to worry about dropping your axe if you blow it? and if you are the type to respond by saying just cary a third tool, then i say to you third tools are usualy crapy tools and not what i want to be using in this scenario anyway.
__________________
Long awaited home coming.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 02-19-2010, 04:38 AM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,532
Mike, do you have a photo, a brand name or something? That sounds pretty cool but I can't quite picture it~
__________________
"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 02-19-2010, 08:50 AM
mil-mil's Avatar
mil-mil mil-mil is offline
tinker bell
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alabama, soon to be back in Korea
Posts: 322
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com.../spinner-leash
here you go. I personally hate leashes but i get paranoid about dropping tools during a fall and getting stuck. These thigns are awsome.
__________________
Long awaited home coming.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 03-10-2010, 01:53 PM
dangerflower's Avatar
dangerflower dangerflower is offline
velocity girl
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: korea
Posts: 105
those are interesting gadgets mike, but switch tools a couple of times and don't they get a little tangly? or how about when you are doing a belly rub on the ice to get over an overhang (as some of us do! no need to name names here...^^)? just wondering, it seems like they might get in the way a bit...

another option are the short leash clips (such as on the camp awax tools) that attach halfway up the tool and are removable. they seem more versatile and easy to use when you are switching tools, placing screws, clipping/unclipping, etc...security and versatility, now those are two words you don't hear together every day...^^ you only unclip them when you need to and feel that you are secure enough to do so...

the pic below of the quarks is the only one that i could find (true, i didn't search very hard^^) to show what i'm trying to describe. i know that camp offers a very similar leash (as well as a full-length leash) as well. (I LOVE MY AWAX TOOLS!^^)
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catal...100&Code=cc c

OR you could come up with some sort of alchemistic process to fuse your tools to your hands and never drop them again! this would also be useful to scratch that hard-to-reach itch on your back! (may have possible adverse side effects, including, but not limited to, the inability to wipe with toilet paper, turn the pages of the latest bestseller, flip pancakes and be around small children.)

this is a good discussion though, and has been on my mind as i love the freedom of climbing leashless, but have also seen a lot of sketchiness and have even had tools dropped from above me (scary as gehenna!). also have been wondering what i will do in the mountains as i get more into alpine climbing. of course, i do not want to take the risk of dropping a tool, aka my other lifeline, while i'm out there, but i also don't want to be fumbling around with my leashes either (perhaps 'practice' is the best answer to this...^^)...
__________________
'i became insane with long horrible intervals of sanity.' (edgar allen poe)

'it doesn't have to be fun to be fun'. (alpinist heading up 'the south african' route in patagonia)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 03-10-2010, 03:05 PM
mil-mil's Avatar
mil-mil mil-mil is offline
tinker bell
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alabama, soon to be back in Korea
Posts: 322
D if you look a bit more close, they are attached to a swivel witch keeps them from tangling. these things were actually designed for scottish winter climbing(crazy mixed drytooling snow routes) where youa re constanly switching hands and double handing tools. Also i have never had any issue with it while doing beached wale impresions on ice or drytool routes. hope this helps with your decision.
__________________
Long awaited home coming.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 03-11-2010, 11:13 PM
dangerflower's Avatar
dangerflower dangerflower is offline
velocity girl
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: korea
Posts: 105
aha!!! ok, i get it now! thanks for the remedial post!^^
__________________
'i became insane with long horrible intervals of sanity.' (edgar allen poe)

'it doesn't have to be fun to be fun'. (alpinist heading up 'the south african' route in patagonia)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 03-12-2010, 08:48 AM
mil-mil's Avatar
mil-mil mil-mil is offline
tinker bell
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alabama, soon to be back in Korea
Posts: 322
NP, hope you get a set and enjoy them as much as i do.
__________________
Long awaited home coming.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 04-01-2010, 03:05 PM
jason in Sokcho's Avatar
jason in Sokcho jason in Sokcho is offline
Jason
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Yangyang/Sokcho
Posts: 84
I had a play with the BD spinner leash in the shop attached to tools. They seem really good and switching tools seems to cause zero problems and your cross over due to the swivel.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump





All times are GMT +9. The time now is 12:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.