Voting Poll: Dates for Autumn 2009 Meet and Greet.

[choss monkey]

unless i end up injuring myself or it's raining, i won't be able to make the m&g. is there any way to still get a couple of those bitchin shirts?

[ricardo]

Originally Posted by CharlesCullen23

...Seonunsan as well as Yongseo Pokpo can handle enough people for a meet and greet as well, and are just as great all around crags.

speaking as half the duo that put Yongseo Pakpo on the map and a contributor to the anchor replacement, that is a horrible place to have a M&G. the climbs might be there, the scenery is definitely there, but the infrastructure to handle even the M&G numbers of yesteryear (20-30) is just NOT there. the numbers of recent gatherings...no way.
i know all climber trash (+ some) would be disposed of in proper local garbage bags at a predesignated location (right?), but the amount of human waste generated by 40-50 people over 3 days is WAY more than that place can handle. septic + au-natural would completely contaminate that stream and foul it for those below.
but i am gone and you are there and you will do what you will do. at the very least, if you are going to have a group of over 15, you should get full approval of the very kind family that runs the minback/shiktang.


as the beginning of our description states...

One of the most beautiful and quiet places I have been in Korea. Very little traffic (local?) and very off the beaten path!

you have not experienced Yongseo until you have spent a weekend there with less than 4 other people and seen no one else.
yongseo is not for advertising...yongseo is for escape!

(charles, i'm not picking on you. it IS a beautiful place and we have tried and tried to figure out a way to make it work. we never came up with any good solution)

edit: don't mean to hijak this thread. if you want to agree/bash my opinion, please start another.

[skinsk]

so Ric started. . . I kinda concur. . . the two "best" crags-- Kanhyon and Seonunsan-- have traditionally been M&G, and even most Korean clubs around the country hit these up once a year! All climbers should make it to these at least once, and the M&G is such a great opportunity.

Maisan is brilliant for the occasional large gathering, and they've done KOTR right, by god, but the crags tend to separate the 5.6-2.10 climbers and 5.11+ climbers for the day. Also, helmets are a good thing to have there (see the photo of Rick with Yats and the bowling ball size rock Rick dislodged in the middle of a route!) and that's not generally the case at a meet and greet, where newbies are (and should be!) encouraged!

Seonunsan and Kanhyon are gorgeous, have every type of accomodation, and (as the world's strongest man, Brandon, can attest) are worth making a long-haul, 1/2 day (or night) trip across the country for!

Busan, Daegu, Maisan and Yongseo make for excellent mini-M&G. . .

[bhylenski]

In my opinion, due to the number of people in Korea now climbing. And the size of the M&G's in recent years.... possibly more, multiple-mini M&G's would be a better option. 40 climbers and 10-20 of their non-climbing friends, drinking and partying at the base of a climbing crag that is used by not ONLY FOREIGNERS, but Koreans as well, does a poor job of representing who we all are. Yes, most of us clean up after ourselves, but the damage can still be done to the area. I would love to hear some ideas for impact management and things we can do to contribute to the area DURING the M&G's

1. Donations for Anchor Replacement Initiatives
2. "Proverbial Planting" of trees, local fauna, etc.
3. A "Clean-up" day, where we spend one morning cleaning the entire crag, including creek beds, trash, shoveling and turning human waste, etc.
4. Trail building
5. "Fix a Crag" day, where climbers are asked to help local infrastructure owners to help fix up buildings, prepare gardens, haul trash away, etc.
etc. etc. etc.
and I'm sure many more, more original ideas from other KOTRer's

Most KOTR members have left their home countries in search of something, fun, different, meaningful, etc. And KOTR has given us a venue to organize and KOREA has offered itself as our place to meet. I have nothing against M&G's but our numbers have simply outgrown most places here in Korea and as with all great things, "change" may be staring us in the face.

I'm not the smartest guy in this crew, and definitly not the first to mention this idea, but with time comes change and maybe it's time for some thought about the future of M&G's, not just location, dates and logistics. (no disrespect to organizers, they are always a great time and well managed!!!)

[shanja]

Good points Bryan,
I agree KOTR has kinda outgrown what it used to be. Good and bad in that, but as they say tempora mutantur, et nos mutamus in illis (times change and we change with them). The idea of rolling M&G's has been suggested before, with one in the north (say) then the next weekend one central and then the next weekend one south. That's great too, and though it means KOTR might become kind of regionalized...it may well be the best way to prevent any ill side effects from us over-crowding a given crag on a given weekend.
Hence even or this M&G, I've given up on the idea of trying to organize a communal dinner thing. Numbers and so on are just out of control, and the bonds between members are a little less strong making it harder to be sure of peoples wishes, committments and predelictions.
Still, it's sad. KOTR's trump-card was that is wasn't regionalized and was able to self-police/ support all it's members through close association and mutual respect rather than rules etc. Our very success in interesting people in climbing has made our social fabric imperilled...a microcosm of the world climbing scene!