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Go Back   KOTR Forums > Initiatives > Council Discussions

KOTR is looking for a new owner. Are you a developer, a climber and have plans to stay in Korea for a while? If so, email me at [email protected]
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Unread 04-24-2010, 11:30 PM
bhylenski bhylenski is offline
Currently a "Gyeongsonian"
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Gyeongsan (Daegu)
Posts: 150
Lets Pick one

To Discuss:

Sonia, Charlie, Jason, Jake and Heidi (others opinions are welcome as well!), we now have a small group of which to make a decision for our Spring/Summer Initiative. It doesn't need to be large or to dramatic. But, we have a bit of support for this being built up and a load of volunteers after the M&G. Here are a few options:

1. Yeongseo Pokpo -- Things being discussed and researched now...trashbin in the parking lot of the minbak, toilet to replace the existing one, rebolting (Alec, has started a seperate thread for this), as well as a cleanup day for the crag, the hike up and the minbak, nearby. The suggested dates are Buddha's birthday weekend. But, that's not a lot of time to accomplish most of these things...so we need to adjust the dates or segment this project into stages, or just select another one.

2. Joint Project with KMPL -- I have discussed a few sites with Shawn, but he is open to ideas. He was thinking of a joint cleanup day somewhere, which needed the help, as well as maybe some fixing of belay stances, rebolting, etc. I've researched a few crags here in Daegu, but nothing is firm...ideas/thoughts?

3. Establish KOTR Condolences/Relief Fund -- This fund would allow KOTR to offer assistance when climbers and their families are effected by tragedy, here in South Korea. This project is just awaiting some help from Korean friends, as well as a decision on how we want to handle the money. I need to discuss further with Eric, how we can setup online donations, here in Korea... Paypal is easy in the states, but here in Korea...it's not possible. A bank account can easily be setup, with multiple owners...but who? And what will be the process for making decisions on when we make withdraws, deposits, etc.

Each of these ideas, need some work and a bunch of research. I could really use some help with the individual tasks, but we should first focus on selecting one, so we're all on the same page. Then we can ask other KOTRers for help and assistance, based on all of our unique skill sets! I'm sure there are loads of folks that would help...but we need to pick one and start focusing our efforts.

My vote/opinion - I really want to do Yeongseo, but we need a lot of help and a good bit of money...so could be a long term project. The joint project relies on KPML, so I'm not sure how much time we need to set that up...but Shawn was really open, so if we have a good location, I think we could do it quickly. And finally the fund, could be something easy to setup, do properly, start fundraising this spring and could be a springboard to something larger this Fall (like Yeongseo)...

Ok, let me have it?
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Unread 04-25-2010, 12:07 PM
skinsk's Avatar
skinsk skinsk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jochiwon (Sejong City)
Posts: 2,552
Well, the fund seems a different animal, not something KOTRers need to spend time on. . . except how to set it up. I can ask my KEB banker or give you her # if you want, too. It might be possible to open in the name of the business.

As for the other projects, all have merits and I'm keen to work on whichever is chosen. I don't have a "pet" project. It's also possible to have a few in the works, for people who live in different areas (Yongseo's an hour or so by public transport for me. . .but for some on the West coast it's a haul). Bryan, I'm working on those Gurye contacts for you. That "toilet" well. . . and some of those anchors. . . just kinda take away the feeling of elation you expect when you reach the anchors! And the trash--any is too much. If KOTR put a trash can at the crag with some local garbage bags, between us and Akdong we should be able to change them out regularly. We could sign it. . . "if it's full, please take it down" or something.
"If you can't do something well, you might as well learn to enjoy doing it poorly." -- from a de-motivational poster, but I find it oddly liberating!
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Unread 04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
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shanja shanja is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Daejeon
Posts: 1,386
Here's the web site of the company who made the eco-friendly toilets we see and love at Daejeon wall. I'll see if they produce something that is vaguely affordable and if they have any models which can operate without the need for electricity (or have a solar panel to self power it). These are great toilets, but getting one set up might require a fair amount of money and long term planning/ co-ordination with the min-bak owners and 아동산악회 etc....maybe the local council could be contacted and we could work through them for Yongseo Pok-po's toilet upgrade?
www.enfresh.net (English available).
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Unread 04-26-2010, 01:19 AM
Eric's Avatar
Eric Eric is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Owen Sound, Ontario
Posts: 681
Originally Posted by bhylenski
1. Yeongseo Pokpo -- Things being discussed and researched now...trashbin in the parking lot of the minbak, toilet to replace the existing one, rebolting (Alec, has started a seperate thread for this...
I don't think KOTR should be doing any rebolting. It's cool to work with the local Korean groups who are doing the rebolting or help fund them with money or materials but KOTR should not be doing this.

Why? Because there is no accountability. How can the local climbers know who did the bolting, when they did the bolting and (without removing the bolts) know the quality of the bolt placement.

This makes me think of the tragic accident which occurred in Australia after some foreigner climbers came, rebolted a climb and then left. They did not inform anyone of what they did and a climber died because of it...


In the states there are groups responsible for bolting a crag or area. When you have a single responsible group, you know the history of the bolting. If foreigners start bolting or rebolting, and then leave shortly after, there is no way for the local community to know the history of the bolts at a crag.
Fall: To retreat in dynamic fashion from a climb.
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Unread 05-09-2010, 12:23 AM
choss monkey's Avatar
choss monkey choss monkey is offline
send train
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
Posts: 330
Climber caused erosion control.
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Unread 05-09-2010, 09:44 AM
supertopoz supertopoz is offline
Mud? Low in fat high in fat? Mud.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gyoung Ju
Posts: 97
Steping light years ahead of the crowd.

A cheap, and reliable method for a toilet already exists.

Buying a toilet, putting it in. Making it clean, is all about ones own comfort. It has little to do with enivornmental protection.

come on step ahead, jump light years beyond the crowd. If you really are in to environmental protection, beyond your own comfort. Take your poo and your wee and put it in a pot. Carry that pot home and use your own toilet.

Think it is disgusting? Not me, I think that if you are brave enough to be a rock climber you should be brave enough to deal with your own waste.

Step up and stop patching the problem, deal with it. Zero impact. This option costs so little you can by more chickens and beer at old Ma Joe's
Vietnamese coffee? High in fat, low in fat? Vietnamese coffee.
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Unread 05-09-2010, 11:15 PM
bhylenski bhylenski is offline
Currently a "Gyeongsonian"
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Gyeongsan (Daegu)
Posts: 150
While I do agree in principle...the need is there for a step up in facilities, while we await your effort to change the culture [I'm joking.].

I'm completely on board if you have a few ideas and a solution or two to suggest, on how to go about modifying the "sport climbing" culture here in Korea. I think we would all agree with zero impact, but in the meantime, I don't believe we're enabling any sort of behavior that isn't already running rampant.

Look forward to hearing from ya.
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