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-   -   Quickdraws (http://www.koreaontherocks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125)

Jessica 10-09-2007 09:52 AM

What are the benefits/drawbacks to different kinds of draws (bent/straight gate, wire gate...)? From this thread on the topic, it seems like there isn't a lot of variance from brand to brand, but in terms of safety, what is the difference?

shanja 10-09-2007 12:32 PM

Dear Jess, you know there probably isn't all that much difference in styles and model variations. The cheapest certified types generally work as well as the most fancy and expensive. That said, there are differences for reasons and everyone has a preference.
Bent gates are marginally easier to clip on the rope end of a draw, as the bend sort of gets the loop of rope you are clipping right "in" the gate. They also usually give you a slightly wider clearance than the equivalent straight gate, so you can hook fatter ropes/ chains etc.
Wire-gates are lighter, somewhat stronger (tensile strength wise), and far less prone (coz of the lighter gate weight) to "gate flutter". This is the vibrational "flutter" gates do when you fall on a draw. No, it really does happen, though only rarely does this lead to a rope unclipping - but it can and has. Also wiregates do not freeze-up or block with ice and snow as easily as bent/straight gates; hence they are esp. popular for ice/alpine climbing.
Dogbones:The slings between crabs (biners). Trad climbers usually prefer to just use slings, as they can be extended to keep rope drag at a minimum (important with nat pro like cams and nuts). But sport climbing draws can be varied too. Stiff draws like the Petzl Express (with lots of sewing between the ends) can help you reach a draw up to a just reachable bolt, but this feature can also cause the draw to "ride-up" the bolt crab and open it's gate (this happened to me once). Floppy dogbones are more common, and usually do a great job. The might be just a semi-flat loop of webbing (el cheapo) or have two distinct retainer bights at the ends to clip crabs into. These are a definite improvement in keeping your biners correctly orientated. If you fall on a biner (crab) that is not being held in the correct way by the dogbone (sling) it can cross-load which severely weakens the crab! It may well fail. Recently many draws have got little rubber things at one end or both to stop a biner from twisting at all in the dogbone. Some climbers just twist on a rubber band or bit of climbing tape to achieve the same thing on el-cheapo dogbones. If it is only at one end, then that is the rope catching end! A free-er bolt end biner to dogbone set-up allows some movement to keep rope drag/ cam-walk (nat pro) and such down.
Personally I DO think the snag free "key-lock design on any biner (straight, bent or wire (rare)) is worth it. I hate struggling to get snagged biners off a harness, hanger, sling or whatever. Key-locks don't get this problem as much. But until about 5 years ago the patents for them were held by one company. Now many manufacturers are making variations of this.

Jessica 10-10-2007 11:04 AM

Thank you - this is exactly what I was looking for!

Jessica 10-11-2007 08:12 AM

Oh, and another question - for a beginning lead sport climber, about how many draws should one have?

skinsk 10-11-2007 08:26 AM

12 draws is a standard rack. A couple long slings with biners (you can use tape or rubber bands to secure the clip side if you want) are good to prevent drag if the route wanders or if there's a clip below a roof or bulge. They also come in handy for equalizing anchors, prussiking, etc. I also like to have an extra (small and light) locker in tow, esp for the beginning leader if you ever just want to feel extra secure!

Look at the posts for your favorite places. For what to bring, there's usually info on how many draws you need!

normalcyispasse 10-11-2007 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by Jessica
Oh, and another question - for a beginning lead sport climber, about how many draws should one have?

When I was climbing in AZ all the time I had 3 sets of 6. They were all solid bent-gate, with dogbones ranging from short (great for vertical sport routes) to long (good for reducing rope drag on overhanging routes). When I moved I only brought one set of 6 with medium dogbones. With this set I can lead most short climbs but I need to borrow some if I'm going to do anything fairly high. I just ordered a set of 10 to add to my rack.

A really important thing that is often overlooked is clipping technique. Before you start leading you need to be comfortable clipping a rope into a draw; it's harder than you think, especially when you're balancing on one hand. If you can, get a piece of old rope (just a foot will do fine) and practice clipping a bight into a biner with one hand.

Donnaeko 03-27-2011 10:32 PM

Prices for quickdraws

I wonder if anyone has recommendations for places to shop for quickdraws.
I am after a set- do they come by the dozen or only sets of five. Strangely a set of five is all i've seen so far (Camp-120 000)- and how much?

obsessed 03-27-2011 11:14 PM

jongo-5... there were a couple shops down there that had trango's for 18k ... I bought 4... Alternatively, Snwclmber found a deal online... 24 draws for like... 165 american... mabye you could get a couple people together?

Donnaeko 04-02-2011 09:05 PM

I got 8 Camp draws for 150,000 won at Jongno 5 ga today.
You can do better I'm sure, but I couldn't see any Trangos around.

skinsk 04-04-2011 10:59 PM

Just don't regret your purchase or keep checking prices. . . better go oput and use them and justify: if I waited, I wouldn't have had them the last __# of weeks. . . they may be cheaper later, but think of that extra use you got! be happy!! just be sure you get out and put them to use!!!

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