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-   -   December 9th Seoul, U.N. International Mountain Day Ceremony (http://www.koreaontherocks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1213)

Hypoxic 12-09-2007 12:55 AM

We're all set for the Day of Reckoning.

With warm regards, I hope you all can make it out.

Here's my cell if needed: 010 5595 6099

Hypoxic 12-11-2007 02:19 PM

Well, the seminar is all over and done, and it went very well. The tour was wonderful, all of the speeches were insightful and sincere, and the food was delicious - so was the dongdongju. We're looking forward to next year.

Thanks to everyone who came out to support the seminar. Especially, thanks to Jake for agreeing to join us as a speaker and who, in my opinion, delivered the best speech. Thanks a lot, my friend.

Check out the KML site for a brief breakdown and a photo from the seminar.

And today is the day.

Happy International Mountain Day everyone!

skinsk 12-11-2007 03:45 PM

Shawn, it was nice to finally meet you, and interesting to hear from the very varied panel! I think I am inspired to clean up an oil spill this weekend! Peace and all, and thanks for giving vegetarianism (well, once a week veganism) a plug! Peace and love and all to you:hippie:

shanja 12-12-2007 12:24 AM

Well I think that my speech was probably the most nervous and rambling, but thanks all the same. My sincere thanks go out to the folks who attended. Next years program should be much bigger and may even include a celebrity speaker. The main points we need to keep in mind are that with GLOBAL WARMING being accepted even by GW Bush and co (finally), it is imperative we arew proactive in turning around the damage done on our beloved environment, as Shawn said, BOTH when we are in the hills and out of them.
Recycle.
Take public transport, or walk/ cycle/ skate etc
Sign petitions against overpackaging and unsustainable practices.
Pack it in, pack it out.
Join a KML/ KOTR clean-up event. (Just pick up extra trash at a crag!)
Avoid damaging the environment when we climb/ hike/ ski/ raft/ run/ trek etc
Spread the message.

If you've watched CNN lately (yeah I know I know it's the Devils channel blah, blah, blah BUT) you might have seen how the glaciers in South America are in full scale retreat, leading to appalling suffering, both human and ecological. The NZ glaciers are the same. Original alpine routes done a mere 50 years ago are know scrambles over morraine and scree! The Hims are being choked and melted by an entrapment of smog that blocks against them on the southern side from the sub continent, and well even non-climbing areas like southern USA are getting whacked by severe weather changes. Australia hasd had the worst drought (across 85% of it) EVER recorded!
If you love climbing, playing, or just being in the mountains NOW is your last shot at making sure they will still be there for you and others to come.
Sorry to sound gloomy, but the reality is we can all make a difference if we pull our fingers out and fight for what we know is beautiful and right.
Take care and climb safe, high and clean.

Hypoxic 12-12-2007 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsk
Shawn, it was nice to finally meet you, and interesting to hear from the very varied panel! I think I am inspired to clean up an oil spill this weekend! Peace and all, and thanks for giving vegetarianism (well, once a week veganism) a plug! Peace and love and all to you:hippie:


It was great to finally meet you as well, Sonia. Regarding vegetarianism and its relation to environmentalism, full on vegetarianism is rather hard for most people, but at least (at least) one day a week of not comsuming any animal-based products can help to reduce stress and impact caused by our unsustainable farming practices. Regarding the cruelty issue, free range/organic animal farming is a good alternative for environmentalists, as the animals are feed properly, not given hormones, and have range. These farms also produce far less stress upon the ecology and are ultimately a far more sustainable practice than our other archaic methods. I eat meat maybe twice or thrice a month, always locally farmed free ranged/organically produced unmodified meat (99% of the time chicken). I also only eat locally produced organically obtained eggs from free ranged chickens. When I say locally, I'm talking a 20 minute drive to the farm from my house. It's more expensive, but its worth it, and if we can educate on the necessity and ultimate benefits of such farming, we can entice more people to support these farming practices and then ultimately lower the prices. When I eat cheese, its organic and contains no junket (cow stomach lining), but is not locally produced (impossible to find here).

Limit impact.

Regarding the terrible oil spill, I'm currently looking into the situation more deeply, doing some research and I may also be heading down this weekend to help with cleaning. The KML will begin following the situation and will encourage members and those who visit our site to help out in some way.
It looks like it will take upwards to two months to get everything cleaned up, though the long term environmental damage has likely already begun to set in. :( :mad:

Stop using oil! That's one thing I forgot to mention in my lecture - reduce your dependance on plastics - plastic materials require and contain oil.

Let's work harder, friends, to keep the spirit of Sunday's seminar vibrant everyday. :)

Hypoxic 12-12-2007 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanja
Well I think that my speech was probably the most nervous and rambling, but thanks all the same. My sincere thanks go out to the folks who attended. Next years program should be much bigger and may even include a celebrity speaker. The main points we need to keep in mind are that with GLOBAL WARMING being accepted even by GW Bush and co (finally), it is imperative we arew proactive in turning around the damage done on our beloved environment, as Shawn said, BOTH when we are in the hills and out of them.
Recycle.
Take public transport, or walk/ cycle/ skate etc
Sign petitions against overpackaging and unsustainable practices.
Pack it in, pack it out.
Join a KML/ KOTR clean-up event. (Just pick up extra trash at a crag!)
Avoid damaging the environment when we climb/ hike/ ski/ raft/ run/ trek etc
Spread the message.

If you've watched CNN lately (yeah I know I know it's the Devils channel blah, blah, blah BUT) you might have seen how the glaciers in South America are in full scale retreat, leading to appalling suffering, both human and ecological. The NZ glaciers are the same. Original alpine routes done a mere 50 years ago are know scrambles over morraine and scree! The Hims are being choked and melted by an entrapment of smog that blocks against them on the southern side from the sub continent, and well even non-climbing areas like southern USA are getting whacked by severe weather changes. Australia hasd had the worst drought (across 85% of it) EVER recorded!
If you love climbing, playing, or just being in the mountains NOW is your last shot at making sure they will still be there for you and others to come.
Sorry to sound gloomy, but the reality is we can all make a difference if we pull our fingers out and fight for what we know is beautiful and right.
Take care and climb safe, high and clean.


We need to have it in our minds that Mountain Day is everyday. Shall we try to get something going for Earth Day?

shanja 12-12-2007 01:13 PM

It's great to see so many people from both KOTR and KML already preparing to help out with the oil spill. That is exactly the kind of attitude we need and love to see. Thanks everyone!
I'd just like to point out that although many agricultural practices of industrialized capitalist economies are bad for the environment, and not sustainable...we need to be careful in proposing alternatives also. Sorry to say but vegetarianism isn't ipso facto better for the environment. I know some of you are vegetarian and feel strongly about it, but many more are not. Here's some points to consider, but please don't take it the wrong way. I 100% agree many animal based industries are cruel, unsustainable or just unnecessary:
Crop farming (the main source of vegetarians diet) also causes massive deforestation and environmental degradation - the jungles of Asia are being cleared (and have been for centuries) for the planting of rice, soy-bean, millet, corn and palm trees (for oil, milk etc). The Aztec civilataions denuded many hills also in maize farming, and it was the irrigation and crop farming of Australias Murray Darling Basin that caused it to become a salty wastelend.
If everyone on the planet were a vegetarian we would need to plow up and plant 90% of the Earths land-mass in order to maintain a 2000 calorie/ person diet. At present, the idea of global vegetarianism is not sustainable either...maybe science will find a way to make super crops with super yields (I worked in CSIRO's Plant Genetics Division, and my major is Genetics) but then you are talking GMO's. Sure some cattle/ sheep/ pig farming practices are also resulting in deforestation and so on. I agree 100% that we need to stop this, and now. But vegetarianism isn't really the solution.
Shawn is right on about our dependence on oils and fossil fuels. I doubt anyone disagrees with the need to leave this oil/ fossil fuel era in the past. But animal products are (or can be) renewable. The alternative to leather is plastics. Plastics are made by petro-chemical factories from oil and fossil fuel derivatives. Sorry but you either use natural products (and accept that this includes animal products) or you build chemical plants and use synthetics. Instead of taking a false moral high-ground we should all be working against cruel animal farming practices and allfarming (or other industry) practices that are clearly unsustainable.
This is not meant as an anti-vegetarian rant...I will continue to practice a vegetarian diet 2-4 times a week myself. But let's not fool ourselves and engender factionalisms between people who love the environment. Both vegetarian and omnivorous humans can work together to find ways to better manage our resources. Both diets/ lifestyles can be good or bad for the world, and both can benefit from co-operative involvement and acceptance.

skinsk 12-12-2007 01:52 PM

Meat eaters shouldn't take it personally, but in terms of sustainability, grains and vegetables take way less land, do less damage to the land, pollute land and water sources less (animals also require feed grains such as alfalfa or corn) . . . even the beef industry isn't putting out studies otherwise. . . I've never heard anyone argue that meat is more sustainable and takes up less land/resources, and a simple search yielded no fruit, so to speak. As Shawn points out, though, there are so many things to do. . . if you're not ready or able to give up meat . . . almost every action we make has an impact! Being conscious and aware of our consumption is the best way to start. But we can be hard on ourselves and others when we fall short, either. It's not a contest, and everyone works to a level they are comfortable with, and then my game is: trying to up myself! I am guilty of having a car. . . a computer. . . using batteries. . . buying imported goods. . . and travelling a lot! Travelling is not sustainable. . . are bolts good for the environment?! Very debatable, but I clip them.

Shawn, I agree that the animal raising and farming practices you mention are also important (if not moreso from an environmental standpoint) and thus my website links to sources of organic, free-range, etc foods, so from whatever place an individual is coming from . . . from "so vegetarian he only ate of fallen fruit/ and wore rope sandals" to "I eat only meat" . . . people can find fresh, quality and sustainable foods (though the latter are less likely to go to www.vegetariankorea.org!). I totally hope you let me know of any links/shopping sites etc you may have found. . . and while Korea's dairy industry (esp in terms of cheese) is in it's infancy, it's offering organic milk now! The sustainability/organic/vegetarian movement in Korea has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 10 years (next month will be 10 years since I first came to Korea!!:eek8: ) . . .the more support we give to what's on offer, the more likely new things will be added!

shanja 12-12-2007 02:48 PM

Well I don't see how clearing a forest and ripping up the soil for a crop hurts it less than having a cow graze there (and manuring the soil. Crops require fertalizer - either natural (where does that largely come from? Cows etc on farms etc) or synthetic (from factories). To produce the same amount of calories for food, crops require upwards of 5-10 times the land under culitivation regular pasture grazing requires. Intensive grazing degrades he land and is bad. Agreed. But careful grazing and understocking can be done on smaller amounts of land for more calorie yields. Most commercial crops are also mono-cultures which is devastating for ecosystems.
This shouldn't be a case of meat-eaters versus vegetarians. As I said I am an omnivore, and that is what nature designed humans to be. I no more say we should eat only meat than that I say we should all live under the sea. We have (genetically encoded) bacteria for meat digestion as well as plant digestion, meat processing teeth and plant processing teeth. Yes, it is possible to live a 100% vegetarian diet. That's fine and great. Is it morally better? Is it more natural? Is it more ecologically sustainable? No there is no evidence to suggest it is. There IS lots of evidence to say many current farming practices are bad. There IS ALSO much evidence to suggest organic foods are way better for the environment. I just don't see why vegetarians feel the need to confuse ecological sustainability with their own dietary preferences. Both diets can be good or bad depending on HOW they are practiced by the users and the industries that promote them.

Hypoxic 12-12-2007 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanja
Well I don't see how clearing a forest and ripping up the soil for a crop hurts it less than having a cow graze there (and manuring the soil. Crops require fertalizer - either natural (where does that largely come from? Cows etc on farms etc) or synthetic (from factories). To produce the same amount of calories for food, crops require upwards of 5-10 times the land under culitivation regular pasture grazing requires. Intensive grazing degrades he land and is bad. Agreed. But careful grazing and understocking can be done on smaller amounts of land for more calorie yields. Most commercial crops are also mono-cultures which is devastating for ecosystems.
This shouldn't be a case of meat-eaters versus vegetarians. As I said I am an omnivore, and that is what nature designed humans to be. I no more say we should eat only meat than that I say we should all live under the sea. We have (genetically encoded) bacteria for meat digestion as well as plant digestion, meat processing teeth and plant processing teeth. Yes, it is possible to live a 100% vegetarian diet. That's fine and great. Is it morally better? Is it more natural? Is it more ecologically sustainable? No there is no evidence to suggest it is. There IS lots of evidence to say many current farming practices are bad. There IS ALSO much evidence to suggest organic foods are way better for the environment. I just don't see why vegetarians feel the need to confuse ecological sustainability with their own dietary preferences. Both diets can be good or bad depending on HOW they are practiced by the users and the industries that promote them.


Well put, Jake. It is true that we cannot equate vegetarianism with environmentalism - just as we can't confuse environmentalism with ecology (ecology 101, chapter 1). The best argument for a vegetarian diet must follow the reasons of cruelty, but that in itself can be solved by free-range/organic practices, which also, as you pointed out, are more sustainable.
Like I said before, I eat mostly fruits, grains, and vegetables, always organic, and eat free-ranged, grain fed chicken (also more sustainable) two or three times a month. I don't refer to myself as a vegetarian, I'm a 'sustainetarian' (I like to think I coined that term, but I'm not sure...:becky: I better get it in print!;) ). I eat more organic fruits, grains, and vegetables because the production of them produces less stress on land and water systems than free-range animal products do. I also feel, though agreeing with you, that humans likely ate more - perhaps much more - fruits, nuts, and vegetables than they did meat as the former would've been easier to get (that's why globally grains and vegetables form the staples of diets - potatoes and rice, for example); though, yes, I agree we are simply biologically encoded to consume both plant and animal protein.
Again, though, stressing my point, we simply have to limit impact, and organic products - meat, fruits, grains, and vegetables - are the most sound way of doing that if we choose to live within the economical system that provides food; otherwise, having our own little organic crops to self-sustain us is the best way to go - and the wife and I are likely going to start growing potatoes, lettuce, sweet potatoes, and onions come April in a little plot we're renting.


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