Halmae Bawi Entrance Fee

[Ricky]

My club members told me yesterday that as of July 27th those wishing to access Halmae Bawi will have to pay a 5000-10 000 won entrance fee per person. This fee is apparently to cover the cost of water and garbage disposal. The cost of tickets purchased in advance on-line is 5000 won per person(where I have no clue, but I will get that info for you), at the site the cost is 10 000 per person. If you wish to pitch a tent there you'll have to pay an additional 10 000 won. The biggest problem however is that the owner of the property is also demanding that every climber who visits the site have "climbing insurance". I'm really not sure that foreigners can even get climbing insurance.
It is the renter of the property who is creating and enforcing these regulations. I'm not sure if this is just going to lead to an all out boycott or not. I would totally be willing to pitch in few bucks to help with garbage disposal and to gain access to water and toilets, provided the fishermen had to pay as well, but 5000-10 000 seems a little steep, don't you think?

[mil-mil]

I agree, i see no problem with pitching in a donation or something like that but 10,00 for climbing and another 10 for camping thats kind've outrageous. It's not even that big of a crag.

[Ricky]

Here is the message. Well maybe...I'm not sure because my Korean is very limited.


실시일 - 2007년 7월 27일(금)부터

변경방식(선 예약방식) - 텐트 유료(1동당 10.000원/일) I think a tent is 10 / person here
바위사용료 유료(1인당 5.000원/일,단 7세 미만은 무료) Under 7 years old = no entrance (no problems there, personally)
보험 미 가입자 등반 불가 (강제 퇴출 합니다) somrthing about insurance
사전 사용자 예약 방식 (현장 사용료 징수시 2배 징수) I think you have to submit proof of insurance with your reservation
보험가입증명서 프린트 제출

예약사이트 - www.xclimbing.com (쇼핑몰내 바위이용권) The reservation site (maybe)

등반시설 개선 - 화장실 : 청소 및 사용가능 The fee includes the upkeep of the toilets, water and te rest I don't know.
식 수 : 지원
텐트장 : 신설
조명시설:년내 확충(야간등반용)
매 점 : 연내 시설
주차장/소각장 : 신설(예정) - 현 도로 공사로 인하여 정리 작업중
기 타 : 등반에 필요한 시설등

기존시설에 대한 공고
1.현재 시설된 루트부분에 대하여 2007년 8월 31일까지
소유권 주장에 대하여 자진 철거 기간을 드리며 미 철거시
개별 철거 실시(중복루트 및 위험루트)
2.미철거 루트 하단에 개척자 신상정보 및 루트 특성 표시 명판 신설
3.신설 루트에 대한 부분 철저한 계획 루트 개발(신청 후 개발)
4.연못 낚시터 정비등
Molla
보다 낳은 등반 환경을 만들어 드리겠습니다.
제안및 건의 부탁드립니다.

할매바위 관리 담당자 김창주

email - anamesa@hanmail.net

기타 문의 사항은 011-216-2852 김창주로 연락 바랍니다.

This link www.xclimbing.com will take you to the original message. I understood you could purchase tickets here, but I'm really not sure.

[shanja]

Bloody Hell! Even Ned Kelly* would shudder at this type of blatant highway robbery. Having checked out the Korean site at xclimbing.com it seems that the lands of Halmae bawi and Asan Gardens are seperate entities. It's not the owners (absent) of Asan Gardens who are behind this (well just maybe they are also, but not directly as Halmae bawi is on private land owed by other people). At a guess it looks like the owners of Halmae bawi land have decided to turn it into a private "user-pays" climbing wall - sort of like a natural rock am-jang, if you will. They are talking about having it lit at night and getting the toilets/ water and trash ammenities up and running (and regularly serviced). Now we all seem to agree that paying a fee for such services (especially the trash removal) is a good idea and could lead to an overall improved site. The fishermen/women will also be asked to pay a fee in the future, so it's not 100% targeting climbers. But it's been done in a very hostile, greedy and selfish way. Koreans have noted on the site that they put up the routes and it was their private money that paid for the bolts etc. The reply was then (basically) "OK so take your bolts out and go home. We will replace them ourselves." I think that, and the warning that if you turn up and refuse to pay their fees they will call the police says a lot about who they are. The issue of insurance is harder to fathom, as I know of no other place in all Korea (correct me if you do) that demands you have accident/injury insurance before climbing permission is given. Usually a legal waiver of responsibilty is as far as they ever go, and this I can totally understand in this crazy age of litigation and lack of self-responsibility.
So what do we do? Do you think 5000won a head per day (online pre-paid) is a fair exchange for the promised services? 10,000won a tent is just a rip-off plain and simple...it's not great camping there anyway! IF YOU CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AND THINK IT'S AN UNFAIR/ WRONG DEMAND then please pass on the www.xclimbing.com message about it to the Koreans in your gym (download it and print it out or tell them in your best Korean). Gently ask their opinions on the issue (we don't want to be seen as greedy, rude, insensitive foreigners!!!) and IF THE KOREAN CLIMBERS AGREE it's a bit bloody dodgy, then maybe we can all act together to try and change these plans. A reduction in fees (say 2000won a head per day) and the signing of a waiver instead of insurance might be acceptable???
The only other options (paying whatever/ not going there) are both rather distasteful...It's so sad to see access issues like this popping up in Korea. I thought I'd left that sort of capitalist nonsense back in the Western world.:pout:

* Edward "Ned" Kelly was a very famous Australian Bushranger/ Highwayman/Outlaw (subject of several movies including ones by Orlando Bloom and co a couple of years back, and Mick Jagger (Rolling Stones) in the 70's). Sort of a real life Aussie Robin Hood, who wore a homemade armour suit and lead a rebellion of sorts against a currupt and vicious aristocratic govt. He also held up many banks and hence is in fact a robber. In Aussie vernacular if someone is a "Ned" or a "Kelly" he /she is considered a thief (literally of figuartively-such as adodgy used car salesman etc)

[ricardo]

this is BS! paying 10000 won for usage and trash disposal for a place that i've cleaned up many times is insulting.
a little good faith on their part would have eased this pain. meaning if they actually took care of the area (trash!) before dropping this on us i might actually believe them.
and the comment about replacing the bolts themselves is absolutely ridiculous. they obviously have no clue about placing bolts and setting routes, and if the fee's didn't stop me from climbing there...that surely would. it sounds like they either didn't ask any climbers opinions or they are truly selfish and greedy. hopefully comments fromthe korean climbing community and the korean speaking foreign climbing community can explain this. could someone copy the pertinent information into a text document and attach it to their post so we can print this out easily? i'd try but my korean skills lack.
with that rant over (for now), i'd be more than willing to pay for usage of such a kick @$$ climbing area, but 10K won is out of the question.

edit: the insurance requirement makes me wonder if they've been sued by a fallen/injured climber. i thought suing someone for your failed risks and/or stupidity was an american thing...didn't think it happened over here.

[skinsk]

Hmmm. . . Jake, Jason Kris and Jessie might send a bill for the massive cleanup!! Or at least get your one-year free pass. And will someone be stationed there?! OK, the routes at Halmae are nice, and it's fun for me to drive up and belay from the car so close to home, but it'll be interesting to see how the climbing community reacts to this?! I'm in Lithuania right now so it's not so convenient for me to check the Korean websites. . .

Sununsan and Maisan are fairly near. . .

[Ricky]

Okay this is the new beta I got over the weekend.

So I'm chillin' over at Halmae when this chumpy lookin' fella comes over. He was wearing a gold carabiner necklace so I figured he was a climber, but when my coach started talking to him in a very serious manner I realized there was more to this dude than his hippy hair, tapered blue jeans, and the 10 A redpoint he proudly boasted about. Turns out this guy was THE dog baby who has decided to make our lives difficult. And he doesn't even live in Gochang, he lives in Seoul. He is not the owner of the property, he has leased it for a year (for 30 000 dollars). And since he has the lease he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.

In my opinion, his entrance fee demand isn't a matter of paying for needed ammentities; it's a matter of testing out the feasibility of turning Halmae into a climbers theme park. "Ooooh!...And maybe we could put a strobe light up at night and light up the wall in pretty colors. Then we'll add a waterslide, mechanical bull, and if all goes well, we could get a Viking!"
This sleezeball is trying to cash in by turning our elegant Grandmother into a
5$ whore (sorry, was that a bit extreme). Not a very good investment if you ask me. Especially since climbers tend to be well.....kind of cheap.

Anyway, as far as the water goes....have you noticed the big blue tank on top of the bathrooms? Well that actually collects water for the toilets; but since there's no electricity to work the pump, there's no water to flush the toilets. So infact, the water is free, it's the electricity one has to pay for.

Anyway. This weekend there was a big party at Sununsan for all the Jeolla climbing clubs. There was a real serious discussion but I could only understand bits a pieces of it. In the end a man I've never met, who looked pretty important advised us not to argue or fight with THE dog baby man or do anything to aggravate him. I think the club members are going to get together and discuss this problem and try to find a solution. Anyway, until we know what's going on I think it's better just to avoid going there. I mean we don't want to aggravate the situation, so I think it's best to just stay away. Please.

We really have no place in this fight except to back up our clubs, and we wouldn't want to make the situation worse. The club heads will get together a decide how to handle the situation and I think we should just follow our clubs' instructions with regard to climbing at Halmae. But as far as I'm concerned no independent action should be taken by the foreign community. That's just my opinion.

So that's all I have for now. If I hear anything more I'll let you know.

[skinsk]

Thanks for the update and the honest and thought out appraisal. . .

[shanja]

Yeah, let's play it cool and see what happens. As Ricky said if we do anything unilaterally or without fully understanding the dynamics, there is a good chance we'll just make a dogs breakfast of the whole situation. The Korean clubs have more at stake than us, so let's respect their lead and do as they ask us. Plenty of other cool climbing places in Korea.

[ricardo]

well, adrienne and i decided to check things out last saturday to see what was happening at halmei these days. there were zero climbers out there...on a saturday afternoon! i can only assume there is some type of boycott within the korean climber community.
at 12:30 two men stopped by and one of them introduced himself as "the manager" (not the chumpy fella that ricky describes). he seemed like a nice enough guy but communication was difficult. he asked for my "form", which i think was referring to the reservation form acquired from the website. he also asked about climbing insurance. now, i was in the middle of belaying adrienne so i told him to wait a few minutes and then we'll talk. he asked that i move my truck to the parking lot and then he left. i assumed he was waiting there for us but when we drove over there he was gone.
i want to say that we had every intention of paying if asked. we went there for two reasons: 1. to see what the status was, and 2. so adrienne could try out leading (she led two stellar climbs!!). i didn't know about getting any form for a reservation. i'm guessing that's where you get charged?? anyway...
the bathrooms are still disgusting and the trash that was picked up by the kotr crew is still sitting in the restaurant parking lot. they have totally 'cleaned' out all the vegetation around the parking areas and also in the area past the route plaque. the flat spots between the new and old routes have been graded and are now sloped and full of rocks. i hope that this is a project still underway.
i don't want to abuse the situation so i won't go back until the reservation/price/etc is understood...although english/non korean speakers are SOL until they translate the page (of which i have no hope).
i attached a pic of the banner if anyone is able to translate it (sorry about the tree branch).

[shanja]

Thanks for the update Rick. Yeah there is a sort of 'black-list" boycott of Halmae bawi by many Korean clubs. Ricky's gym boss dude asked us at Yongseo to "please avoid climbing there" (Translated by Kyung Ah), and our gym boss here in Daejeon is simiarly inclined...if the dude gets no customers after a year, he will (hopefully) not renew the lease and go back to Seoul, returning Halmae to it's former freedom. Or so the thinking goes.
But, Adrienne! Awesome work matey-oh! Congratulations on getting in two leads. That is certainly a milestone and worthy of a beer or twenty.:rockon: :bigdrink: Maybe I can get KA to try out something similar soon.:rolleyes8
Will try and translate the sign. Read it and yeah, the gist is about internet reservations and fee paying via www.xclimbing.com
If need be, I could even translate the internet reservation page...but that is sort of playing into their greedy clutches I think.
Congrats again Adrienne!

[shanja]

OK here s a rough translation:
Halmae Bawi is on private land. From July 27th onwards anyone wishing to climb here MUST obtain, in advance an internet reservation.
The area will be cleaned (???) from July 23rd to December 31st 2007.
1-If you don't have rock climbing insurance you may not climb here. Proof of such insurance must be given for reservations and climbing
2-Only internet reservations made in advance will be accepted. No drop-in and on-site fee paying possible.
3-If you wish to keep climbing beyond the time specified in your reservation, you will be charged double the fee. Rock climbing Insurance cover must be verified.
(In the case of foreign climbers, they must be guaranteed for all liability by a Korean citizen.)
If you do not agree to the above conditions, piss off!

Well folks that's the best I can do (well KA did most of it:p

[ricardo]

...(In the case of foreign climbers, they must be guaranteed for all liability by a Korean citizen.)
well, that rules me out. thanks a ton Jake for the translation.
hey all, there may be a bright light in all this...maybe they'll improve the site (terracing the 'new' area, clearing the parking/camping area, etc.), get no $$ in their venture, and bail!!!

[Ricky]

the flat spots between the new and old routes have been graded and are now sloped and full of rocks. i hope that this is a project still underway.


Am I an idiot? "Sloped and full of rocks" Why don't I understand this? What do you mean? Are they messing with the rock? That's what I understand from this post, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. It sounds like they are making new routes and totally screwing around with the rock. Say it ain't so!!!!

[ricardo]

no no no, sorry to mislead you ricky. IT ISN'T SO!! i'm just referring to the ground area near the 'end of the driveway' that used to be terraced enough to accomodate tents.

[Ricky]

Okay. So they're just widenning the existing terrace.
Another question: the dude who came up and talked to you...did he have a ponytail, wear glasses, and have a gold carabiner necklace? If so, that's the dude.

[skinsk]

:mad:

[skinsk]

I can't cut and paste a link from my sis's PC in Austria, but someone might paste this thread to the comments under Halmae Bawi, as it greatly changes the area info.

Don't suppose there was any appreciation shown (by the new 'owners') of Jake, Jesse, Jason and Kris's cleanup?!

[Ricky]

Don't suppose there was any appreciation shown (by the new 'owners') of Jake, Jesse, Jason and Kris's cleanup?!

The guy who is imposing fees, insurance, ect... doesn't own the land, he is leasing it. I don't think he had taken over the lease at the time of the clean up which is why no appreciation was shown. I feel bad for those who cleaned up. You may feel your effort was wasted and that you just did this chump a favour, but the clean area was enjoyed for at least three weeks before 'Dog Baby' took over.