Looking to buy the basics - internet info

[Jessica]

I'm looking to get the basics (shoes, harness, belay device), but live pretty far from any place I'd be able to do so in person. My co-teacher is amazing so I would be able to order via a Korean web site, but if someone would be willing to let me have stuff shipped to a base address and then work out a way to get it to Gwangyang, that would be really wonderful (and a lot easier to work out ordering and payment).

Either way, what would be the most helpful right now is recommended web sites, either Korean or in the US. If you have a base address and are able to help, please PM me.

Thanks!

[shanja]

Jessica, try looking at www.gearx.com and/or www.backcountry.com as both these sites usually offer good sales and discounts, and a secure online payment system (well I've never had any issues with it). Also they often do beginners start up packages (shoes, rope, harness, helmet and crabs/biners) at extra discounted rates. I'd recommmend against buying shoes online UNLESS you are 100% sure that the size and model fits you correctly. Even in the same brand, different models can fit quite differently. You might be lucky enough to find the model you like (check threads in KOTR for extra advice on buyiing shoes etc) in a shop here, to get the size...then order that from the states.
For anyone "begining"in rock climbing I'd recommend starting out with a pair of cheaper all-rounder shoes (you won't be able to tell/utilize the difference between them and a more expensive technical shoe)...velcro or slipper style if 70%+ of your time is gonna be indoors/ bouldering or you want them off quick.
Similarly just get a simple manual belay tool (Pezl Reverso, Black Diamond ATC, Trango Pyramid etc) rather than an expensive self locking gadget (Gri-Gri, Cinch etc). The latter can teach bad habits to beginners and is way more expensive, heavier and so on.
Get any old harness, as long as it is from a decent brand. Many today have auto-double backed buckles which is nice, and adjustable leg-loops to help get it snug and comfy. No need to buy anything too tricked out, nor minimalistly spartan.
Well that's my 5cents worth. Good luck and see you on the rock again soon.

[skinsk]

if you want to buy locally, you might try www.alps-ville.com (store in seoul). . . it's run by the sons of kim yong-ki, the guidebook/climbing school guy (specifially dong-jin runs this store; nam-hee another nearby, but either can be found at either and they'll check on styles, etc with each other). . . you can return unused shoes. the brothers speak decent english and have sold to KOTRers before. . . the website will note some good sales. you can probably go to an atm and transfer funds to pay-- most korean mail order is free-cheap and very fast. look on the site, then contact them at 02)2269-6234, 017-339-7115 (kim dong-jin) or misodongjin-at-naver.com. . . they currently have shoes on sale as low as W45,000!!

(from alps-ville website-- shoes will come up automatically-- 8 down under "shopping category" is ice/rock gear--(all future references are on the menu from this) 3 down from that is harnesses. they have some decent prices on black diamond-- not the same style as mine, but i'm on my 2nd bd and am very :) with the quality and simple but useful design-- mad rocks are cheaper-- though i've never heard/read anything about their harnesses?! 4 down- just below harness- is carabiners-- you'll need a locker for your belay device. "kong" is probably ok, but they have a decent price bd and they're a 1st rate brand. 7 down has belay devices-- while i am more "pro-gri gri" than jake (i have seen several accidents as a result of poor/beginner belaying with 8s/atc-types-- i've only heard of gri-gri accidents) for price and versatility (i.e. rapelling with a gri-gri is limited) most people start with an atc-type thing. i have the old-fashioned bd/atc but my next one will be a reverso or the like-- maybe those who have them can recommend? any of the petzls is probably good/can't say for mad rock (but love the shoes) and i just don't like the coated wires on most of the bd belay/rappel devices (i've drilled mine out and added cord-- frayed wire next to rope doesn't strike me as good and for the life of me i know not why they continue this design flaw!! over a decade now!) finally. . . if you've got some extra money. . . 8 down is slings. . . i love having my daisy chain girth-hitched to my belay loop and clipped to an extra (cheaper, say the kong) locking biner. this set-up allows to to anchor yourself when belaying, easily clip in for multi-pitches and cleaning anchors, aid?! and improvise a million differrent things as you grow as a climber!!

[ricardo]

I know REI.com and backcountry.com orders will arrive at a base address 1.5 weeks after purchase. gearx will ship to base addresses though I don't know the speed.
thanks for that link Jake, gearx has some incredible deals!

[Jessica]

Thank you all for your suggestions!

One of the reasons I set this up as a new topic (instead of sending eleventy-million PMs :) ) was that there seemed to be a number of us who are new to climbing and need the basics, so any other advice (on what to buy or where to shop) is most certainly appreciated!

[shanja]

Here's the link to what was discussed earlier about buying shoes (well just my opinion really but it's a start). If it doesn't work look at the gear review thread, it's in that.
http://www.koreaontherocks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430&page=2&highlight=buying+rock+shoes

[ricardo]

i just don't like the coated wires on most of the bd belay/rappel devices (i've drilled mine out and added cord-- frayed wire next to rope doesn't strike me as good and for the life of me i know not why they continue this design flaw!! over a decade now!

Just make sure the wire is very stiff, otherwise it will get sucked into the device when reppelling (I imagine the cord would too). I would hope that if anyones gear had frayed metal poking out that it would be tossed. I've seen some of the coating worn down but never frayed metal.

[skinsk]

With the ATC, it pretty much always happens --sometimes much sooner than later. . . sometimes midway through use! I never had any problems with putting a cord instead (except wearing friends' drill bits)-- never got caught while rapping or belaying. . . and I've done this twice, using them for years. . . maybe because the end is knotted and not fixed it just pulls through the top end. But still, with all the new designs, some with "teeth" for extra rope camming action (more secure breaking!) and just a few bucks more (divided by all the times you use it). . .

Rick-- don't you have the reverso? Or something like it? Aren't you pretty happy with yours? Can you give a review? Anything you don't like?

[ricardo]

The Reverso rules!

[shanja]

I think Rick and I both posted in the thread I mentioned (gear review) about the reverso...again I'll say it. It's sweet. I also recommend snickers bars, Cass Red (as far as Korean beer goes), beal ropes and any carabiners that have a "keylock" type gate sytem (Kong, Petzl, DMM, Austrin Alpin et. al. all make these). Not only are these a fractional stronger design than the traditional notched gates, but they don't/ can't snag on your harness gear-loops when you are trying to get them off. For people like me who are scared witless on lead and hate with panic driven fear the struggling jerky snags of getting the QD off the harness and to the bolt etc...these rock. Wire gates are actually the strongest design (the wire is much more malleable), and least likely to shake open when catching a fall (the ropes vibration can apparently do this, tho I've never seen it). They are also liked by ice climbers as they are much less susceptible to freezing, clogging (maybe a good thing in Thailand too). But if you load a wiregate crab the wrong way (say with the rope running over the wires) it could dammage/cut your rope...always keep an eye on your draws to make sure the crabs are kept in position...it's a bad situation in any crab to triaxiallly load it (rope on the gate/spine rather than at either end). Forget colours, brands and style unless all else is equal. Go for the cheapest CE certified (preferabley "keylock" gated) numbers you can get.

[Fainthearted Wack]

Can anyone tell me if Beal is a good company for ropes? They seem to be very cheap.

[shanja]

Jenn I think Beal Ropes (www.beal-planet.com) are really nice. The are made in France and so have to pass both UIAA and CE certification standards...not all brands do this as it is a bit expensive to register for both tests and accreditation...though either one will ensure you are getting a safe, quality product (99.9% of the time).
I've had 2 Beal ropes and really love their soft, supple feel as well as the price! If you are looking at buying a rope there are many things to compare and it can get really confusing...even for an expert! I'll give you my advice...but remember it is just that...no dogmas, no guarantees, and I could be wrong:doh:
All ropes should list:
Number of falls held: UIAA sets a minimum (for single ropes this is 5) but the number stated on the tag is actually supplied by the manufacturer not the UIAA (who only care the rope has got 5...after which their test stops). You can't know really which companies are being conservative (3 samples held 7 falls, 1 held 8, and 2 held 9, so they call it a 7 fall rope) and which are stretching the truth (eg 1 sample tested held 9 falls and 5 samples held 7 falls so they call it a 9 fall rope). So take this number with a grain of salt.
Rope Elongation:Again a slightly meaningless number, because it is tested statically...not in a fall (dynamic) situation. For single ropes less than 8% passes the test.
Maximun Impact Force: The most useful data I think, as it tells you how much energy a rope can absorb in a fall. This is important because the more energy a rope absorbs the less stress it puts on the falling climber, the belayer and THE ANCHOR/ PRO which catches the fall. It's the reason why we always and only use dynamic ropes for climbing. The lower this number the better (to a point)...as it is expressed in terms of how much impact force (stress) is delivered to the anchors etc. The less stress on that cam, bolt, belay slave, your back etc the better. Ropes are allowed to elongate dynamically up to 45% of their length:eek8: to get their max. impact force number...though it would be rare a manufacturer would go this extreme. Single ropes must be under 2,640 pounds (about 11.730 kN) to pass.
Standard Vs Dry Ropes:Unless you are 100% sure you will only climb indoors, you may as well spend the extra and get a "dry rope" (has been water-proofed). This not only keeps it lighter (wet ropes are heavy), cleaner and nicer looking but as recent tests have shown wet ropes actually are significantly weaker than dry equivalents. Rockboy posted a revealing thread about this somewhere on KOTR. Also it helps reduce wear generally and you can use it for ice climbing, mountaineering etc.
Length: These days 60m is the standard, and you need a 60m rope for quite a few routes in Korea and Thailand et. al. Though at Halmae you'd get by with a 40m rope!:becky:
Diameter:Anything in the 10mm-10.5mm range will be perfect. Smaller is possible, for less weight per foot/ metre but stretches a lot more and usually wears a bit faster.
Colour, Markings etc:Some ropes have a two-colour (bi-weave) pattern so you know when you get to the mid-point. Other put a dark spot or other mark here. It can very useful on multipitch routes, but adds to costs and is rarely needed on single pitch sport climbs. Some ropes also have such colour marks at the last 5 metres of each end, again a useful tool on multipitch (esp Trad) routes and in the alps but unnecessary elsewhere. Whilst it is commonly believed that red ropes make you climb faster, that pink ones are girly and that poo brown ones are way too ugly...it really doesn't matter. If you have two ropes it can be nice to get different colours to keep a clear idea of which rope has been used/ abused more etc.
Other than that I'd just say, get a rope. 60m, any brand, any colour about 10.3mm diameter and at the right price. Good shopping!:lol:

[skinsk]

I also recommend snickers bars, Cass Red (as far as Korean beer goes), beal ropes and any carabiners that have a "keylock" type gate sytem (Kong, Petzl, DMM, Austrin Alpin et. al. all make these).:suspiciou :suspiciou

did you make the latter recommendations before or after that Cass Red?!:eek8:

[Fainthearted Wack]

Thank you so much for the info Jake. I bought an Edelweiss rope the other day, but just noticed this Beal rope on sale for $97.00 (I hadn't noticed the Beal rope comment in your previous post:doh: ). I think I might buy this Beal rope just becasue its such a steal! Your info was VERY helpful. Thank you.