ajeoshi pyeong

[DomDoesKorea]

drives me crazy.

Usually goes something like this:

Ajeoshi repremands you for something like skipping first 2 clips on below warm up 5.6, well in the bouldering height range at outdoor wall, then proceeds to belay his leader from 20 feet away from the wall with an atc while she back clips two draws in a row, and his friend next to them (also an ajeoshi of couse) is belaying from an equally rediculous distance from the wall on a gri-gri feeding slack by pulling the brake wide open.

[supertopoz]

Safety is in the eye of the beholder.

Behold my eyes are blind all is safe.

I want you to know something, relatively speaking climbing is a new sport to Korea. In my country the old guy who are doing, by and large have been doing so since bye gone days.

But here in Korea more and more older people with too much time, and some without a job are taking it up. If you look at me, you what not believe that I have 20 years of climbing all around the world under my belt. But If I mention a safety tip to anyone even slightly older than I, they will get all in huff!

Best to keep you mouth shut, unless death is about to occur, then choose your words wisely. Young lad at the world asked me, "why do so many Koreans die in the Himalayas?"

The answer is simple, if you can't belay correctly at 0 meters about sea level, while you are wide awake and strong. All is going to fall apart at 6000m with a freezing wind, altitude and you have been climbing 16 hours non stop.

I rest my case mentioning that the same lad and his team, went of for a two week vacation, hoping to climb within 14 days to 6500 meters. Enough said.

I call on you all to simply. print out this PDF, post it at your wall or carry it in your pack.
http://www.amga.com/images/misc_PDFs/Petzl_Grigri_poster.pdf
On the bottom right corner you will clearly notice the Korean way of using a GriGri, you can miss it, it's marked with a red cross and skull and cross bones.

Having said all this folks, I use mine to free solo aid climb, with back up knots of course. ehehehhehee

[DomDoesKorea]

I don't say anything back to the Koreans, but it does ruin my mood when it happens.

When you're wrong, you're wrong, 5 or 55. Even if you think you're right.

People just shouldn't tell other people what to do unless; A) they know for sure what the he*! they're talking about and, --> B) Someone is about to get injured or worse, Or C) They're your father.

Printing the gri-gri poster is a great idea.

[dan13]

print it out==blow it up, and then poster it all over at every climbing wall in seoul and or korea for that matter

[willpower]

Uncle Dom, we've all been there and felt the confucian induced frustration, I think these kind of safety related threads are going to continue indefinitely.

We have to be careful with posts like this not to tar all climbers with the same brush, what originates as a genuine safety concern can snowball into a general slur of free-for-all bitch against the Korean climbing community as a whole. A large portion of us climb almost exclusively with other foreigners where chinese whispers become sweeping tales of danger, the moon becomes made of cheese and everyone gets a pony for christmas.

Claiming Korean deaths in the big mountains (though proportionally no more than any other nation) are down to belaying is definitely not fact a touch far from home and is in danger of bordering on a really sensitive topic in Korea. Mountaineering is a big part of the national psyche which is why so many people aspire to it. What if you were a korean climber reading this thread...? (The guys at my gym do...)

Korea is no different to anywhere it the world. Some people do things dangerously, some people don't.

A lot of these issues permeate climbing culture internationally. The problem with climbing is when you start your under the impression that everybody else know's more than you and that if you ask to be shown something its the ultimate humiliation. (When myself and my climbing partner back home started leading we didn't know what back clipping was and set off for Windspit quarry with a set of draws, a single half rope and 'borrowed' rockfax still perplexed at how to get the rope up to the top).

Before we cast a wide arm of judgement over the Korean peninsula it would be worth noting that in the foreign climbing community many of us are new or unfamiliar to leading or climbing outside and operating well out our skills/confidence range. Particularly in respect to belaying a leader. I've seen one drop recently and some eye-wateringly nasty short ropes recently and not a Korean climber in sight. Having bolts and rope doesn't make us invincible. It's really tempting to grab anyone wearing a harness to belay but make sure you are confident in their ability, especially if your leading!

Sorry, for the foray into the land of 'grumpy' man but we've got to keep it in check.

ta. Will.

Ps. If you've got the foreigner card in your back pocket it gives you confucian impunity, fact. Say something.....

[DomDoesKorea]

no offense to the pc stance, and I have met many nice, and safe Korean climbers. But in all honesty, I see it being way too common to belay using simply unsafe methods, and abuse the the gri-gri to standards that would make Petzl cringe. I also have a genuine respect for Korean culture and people. I usually take the "I'm a guest here stance" and write seemigly wrong or rude things off, and file them under the perhaps it's my own ignorance file.

Having said this, I still don't want anybody telling me what's safe when I'm acting in a way that I KNOW to be safe. Especially someone acting in a way that I KNOW to be wrong (i.e. right off the DON'T DO THIS! section of gear instructions)

What would I say to a Korean climber reading this? "I really hope you are safe for your own life and limbs. Also, please don't tell me what to do unless I'm doing something seriously dangerous by conventional world climbing standards."

Also, the "we've all been un safe" angle is only valid here since we all know it was unsafe. If we thought if had been safe, we would be simply foolish. When I started climbing, I learned the right way to do things before I put other peoples lives in danger.

What I hope this snowballs into, if anything is:

"What is the correct way to belay with a gri-gri? How about an ATC"


Here's a start:

1) Don't ever take your brake hand off the rope! (even with a gri-gri)
2) Stand close enough to the wall to be able to counter the pull of a lead fall without getting jerked and having your survival gene potentially take your brakehand off the rope to protect your face.
3) Brake hand palm-down.
4) Only allow enough slack to avoid short roping.
5) Don't feed and take in slack by walk to or from the wall.

supertopos instruction guide shows great methods for using a gri-gri

[grubbsj07]

Frustrations can arise when one feels competent and another questions said competency. I wouldn't limit this experience to the Korean climbing community, however. I had a similar experience back home where I was told at the crag by a climber that I was belaying incorrectly. I forget the specifics, but I remember how frustrating it was at the time. After reflecting that evening, I realized that although it was frustrating, I was glad that someone else at the crag was keeping an eye out for others. I have witnessed and heard many frightening things at the crag back home. A climber once asked me while I had my partner on belay "Can you watch me? This is my first time and my friend has never belayed before. I just want to make sure we don't do anything stupid.":eek8:

I actually haven't experienced the sport climbing scene here. I got into bouldering and was thankful the crew I met was safety conscious as well. The one time I went to 02 World to climb I had someone else (foreigner) whom I had just met belay me. After 2 routes, I decided to stick with bouldering for the rest of my session.

Again, without having experienced the sport climbing scene here I'm not going to dispute what happens. I'm just saying this isn't limited to Korea or Koreans.

[supertopoz]

Okay, then I am gonna say people instead of Korean.

The figure of eight is the most common device used in Korea to belay.

Check out figures 9 and 10 they will clearly show how to use one mulitpitch climbing if you want to do it like everyone else here.

http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Sport/D01D02%20HUIT%20D01600-G.pdf

Nuff said folks. This is no joking matter, I am not generalizing its what I have seen for the past 10 years.

It does what it says on the tin.
Figure of eight DECENDER

If you have seen a more common belay device you are allowed to correct me.